robert j ingersoll on the great voltaire:.
"it has been claimed by the christian critics that voltaire was irreverent; that he examined sacred things without solemnity; that he refused to remove his shoes in the presence of the burning bush; that he smiled at the geology of moses, the astronomical ideas of joshua, and that the biography of jonah filled him with laughter.
they say that these stories, these sacred impossibilities, these inspired falsehoods, should be read and studied with a believing mind in humbleness of spirit; that they should be examined prayerfully, asking god at the same time to give us strength to triumph over the conclusions of our reason.
The Watchtower Society has no problem mocking and ridiculing the beliefs and practices of others. They may go light on it in their litteratrash for public consumption, but when you read their litteratrash for believers, their old publications, and listen to their talks and conversations, mock and ridicule is their standard.
Consequently, if they can dish it out, they deserve to get mock and ridicule served right back to them!
one of the things i have been wresting with mentally is unraveling the "us vs. them" mentality that has been driven into my skull in the organization.. i am starting this thread seeking advice on how others have come to grip with this.. this is what i struggle with:.
i like the feeling/thought of being among people that live, or try to live, or at least know they ought to live by higher standards of conduct (maybe it is just what i'm used to...).
when you walk out of a convention of people dressed up, clean-cut, shaven, non-smoking, less-profanity-speaking, fairly orderly etc and see what greets you in the streets outside, it is a big contrast.. i am also still trying to understand how a religion that has conned people (so is morally wrong) could also be so well organized and have a lot of truly decent folks among their ranks.
"When you walk out of a convention of people dressed up, clean-cut, shaven, non-smoking, less-profanity-speaking, fairly orderly etc and see what greets you in the streets outside, it is a big contrast."
There are plenty of snapshot moments like that with the JWs. There are plenty of such snapshot moments with the Mormons and any number of other religions as well. But what you list is all window-dressing. I can't speak for your experience as an elder, but I was often disillusioned at how troubled, unhappy, or downright abuse many of these "clean-cut" people were. The bethel family looked clean and shiny, but there were plenty of problems in that nuthouse. And the last congregation I was with in bethel looked ideal on the outside, but it was so stressful as an elder because it was an unbelievable bloodbath of personality conflicts and non-stop problems. I've known way too many JWs that have committed suicide.
When I look at the people walking the streets outside of the "spiritual paradise", I see a real blend of some people that have it together and some that don't. I see people I wish I was like, and others that I don't. So when I see JWs walking down the street or standing at their litteratrash carts, I see people that may be good, but have been brainwashed into a bland beige with their potential talents or skills going to waste. They have been taught to believe that they are better than everyone else because they conform to what WT says they need to be.
And those smiling people really believe that everyone that doesn't blindly obey the popes in Brooklyn will soon have their heads smashed by rocks falling from the sky. That's what those orderly, well-dressed JWs are praying for!
has the botchtower discouraged or spoken against members using the internet?.
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satan / devils environment & all that j.w bs!.
Recalling what was said by COs, and talks at CAs, SADs, and DCs, the Internet used to be from the devil! Early on, it was considered a waste of time and money that should be used for preaching. As time passed, they latched on to anything that put the Internet in a negative light... Internet addiction, porn, and worst of all apostates! It was expected that if someone browsed on the web, they would constantly have pop-up windows opening chock full of porn. And it was expected that married JWs would almost immediately find a "friend" on the Internet and abandon their family. With time, warnings about apostates on the Internet increased constantly. I wouldn't have been surprised if a home Internet connection would have been grounds for judicial action.
But times change. Children often needed Internet access in order to do homework, and the parents needed it for their jobs. It all become much more mainstream. So, WT said that if a family was going to have Internet access, they should have it in a public area of their home... so the rest of the family could play the WT role of "big brother".
As WT has slashed their expenses to the bone, they decided to consecrate the Internet. In their own pathetic vision, they speak of their website as something ingenious and grandeous. When in actuality, it's very static and blah. Since they've ordered that no JWs setup any websites, their singular website is all alone, surrounded by anti-JW websites of many kinds.
And there are still lots of JWs who still don't have broadband or any Internet... like some of my relatives. They have certainly noticed the fact that WT has flip-flopped on this issue. It used to be that the Internet was evil, then it could be in the living room, now WT is featuring themselves as a smartphone app! Guess what else you'll be able to access on that smartphone in the privacy of your bedroom... www.jehovahs-witness.net
this week's study april 15th 2014 was called "do you see the one who is invisible?".
it was perhaps one of the most depressing, controlling, fear-mongering, stress inducing, doctrinally incorrect, hate-inspiring, judgemental, cult-like, irrational, hyped-up, critical, crazy, stretched out, fanciful, illogical, burdensome, inflated, coersive, manipulative, and brain-snappingly weird stuff i have read for some time.... (but i'm sure it was just a rehash and repeat of previous stuff...for the new masses....).
i had to keep up a sane appearance while in the hall, and even answer some garbage while this was being 'studied'... my cognitive disonance must be so strong now, because i found this one of the hardest ones to endure....now that i am home, i have poured a stiff drink and am trying to clear my head...... one paragraph was classic:.
So they still teach that "false religion" will soon be destroyed by the governments? Clearly, the world isn't paying attention. They may point to parts of Europe and Asia where religion isn't what it used to be, but Islam isn't going away anytime soon. Hinduism is still going strong. Plenty of Christian churches are still filling seats. And these religions are an active part of electing leaders. Religions are more often destroying governments than governments destroying religion.
And WT certainly hasn't acted like they are preparing for the time when governments will turn on them. When they used to have many branches, it gave them "safe haven" in areas of sympathy. Now it's rather few key branches that could be shut down in Germany, Mexico, Britain, etc. And I often thought when I was in bethel how easy it would be in Brooklyn if there was a sudden ban, we could disappear into the subway, or drive into traffic and just disappear into the crowd. The government wouldn't drop bombs across the river from Manhattan. Meanwhile, Wallkill could be simply bombed into oblivion. Now that "headquarters" is being moved to a remote compound, how very easy for the government to round up the GB in a matter of moments. And with all the cash that is now being sent to WT, it would be very easy for the government to round up all WT assets in one swoop. Back when individual congregations had money, they would have had more time and options for protecting money. And, of course, we used to have book study groups in homes that were supposed to prepare us for meeting under ban. That is long gone. Clearly, what WT is doing is completely different from what they claim to believe.
just a quick thought.... we know that the org loves to paint all those who fade or leave as "negative, bitter and unhappy"...because of course "the truth is the happiest way to live".
so, never allow ourselves to be that way when talking with witnesses, or family members still in.. show them that we are happy, our lives are fulfilled and positive.. then they have no ammunition.
also, it helps other doubters to see that there is life in the world beyond the org..
I have bad days and good days... but overall, I'm much happier now.
Ugh, just imagine the alternative. This would be me in 30 years if I would have stayed "in".
"Why am I so happy? Because Jehovah promises that billions of innocent men, women, and children will be slaughtered by rocks falling from the sky. Then I get a pet panda. ... Very soon now. In the meantime, you'll have to excuse me, I have to go to one of my cleaning jobs."
trying to make rcs less of a snorefest.
not exactly award winning either, but worth a laugh.
kate xx.
Shouldn't "Detroit Style" entertainment include Eminem?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=potrr2qxhue.
.. if armageddon is "imminent", why is wt focused on sight-seeing, entertainment, travel, etc.
instead of preaching and saving people??.
"Listen, obey, and be blessed." That clearly sounded like brainwashing.
The "see how obedient I am by driving 30 miles to a different metro station" sounded stupid, stupid, stupid. I couldn't imagine wasting that much fuel in order to use the same public transportation right near my house. MARTA rail handles over 200,000 daily riders, so they're well equipt to handle a few thousand JWs riding from the closest stations.
I guess this is one of those "unquestioningly obey whatever we say even though it seems strange" type of things from WT.
i was outraged at this and had to post it.. http://jehovahswitnessreport.com/blog/jw-refuses-to-provide-wedding-stationery-to-gay-couple.
i think she is a hypocrite and i bet she sells her invites to fornicators, or does she ask them if they are having sex before marrige, before she takes their money?.
i was never like this when i was a jw, it's even more disturbing that she is going to ask her elders what to do.
mrh: "the JW aren't going around suing business, and they do not have the mainstream media spreading their propaganda."
JWs aren't suing businesses in the USA because that battle was already fought back in the 50s. WT battled with many school districts, and with cities d2d sales laws, etc. all the way to the Supreme Court. In some cities/states JWs had their wedding plans complicated because their "JW ministers" weren't recognized. Plenty of issues about the rights of JWs to rent, use, or own halls. Even more battles were fought in Canada. Decades have passed since JWs were fighting with police and arguing in court, but it certainly did happen where WT was the weird religious fringe minority fighting against the Catholic/Protestant/Political mainstream. That was the era of my grandparents and when my parents were young, so I heard many of the first-hand accounts that now make me cringe. WT used propaganda in their fight for rights. WT sent young sisters into areas where they knew they would be arrested to make sensational press, etc.
And now? JWs aren't going around suing businesses because nobody is discriminating against them. The mainstream media isn't spreading their propaganda because nobody really cares that much about WT, and there are plenty of fundy religions that spread media propaganda very similar to the JW message. WT would love the attention that would come with persecuation of JWs. But when they don't salute the flag or celebrate holidays, nobody cares much. Personally, I actually had customers say to me, "I'm sorry I said 'Merry Christmas' to you yesterday. I just forgot that you're a JW and didn't mean to be insensitive to your beliefs." As far as their right to preach, if JWs come knocking, most peeps just don't answer. Others have their "no soliciting" signs because they don't realize its "no trespassing" signs that JWs have to legally avoid. If a town is so blatant to say, "JWs can't preach here" the city can be sued. Most cities/communities have legal counsel that advises security protocol such that JWs can't get in.
On the flip side, I've known of plenty of cases where JWs are directed to deny service to others. Personally, I was removed as an elder because I didn't turn down a good and reasonable business deal that shouldn't have been an issue. A friend of the family was nearly dfd because he sold his wares to everyone in town... including the local churches. It had never been an issue before, but a CO that had never been gainfully employed carried out a crazed witch-hunt on dozens of responsible small business owners in the circuit.
Going back to your original statement: "Yes, the LGBT community is worse than the JW. The JW may shun you, but once you deal with that, they leave you alone to live your life. There is no getting away from the LGBT community. If you disagree with them, they will go after you with a passion."
LGBT is one of many groups that want to establish their civil rights. To say that they are "worse" than the JWs doesn't make sense because JWs have their civil rights. The need for protests and progress didn't end once JWs won the right to not salute the flag and sell litteratrash from door-to-door on Sundays.
i was outraged at this and had to post it.. http://jehovahswitnessreport.com/blog/jw-refuses-to-provide-wedding-stationery-to-gay-couple.
i think she is a hypocrite and i bet she sells her invites to fornicators, or does she ask them if they are having sex before marrige, before she takes their money?.
i was never like this when i was a jw, it's even more disturbing that she is going to ask her elders what to do.
mrh: "Yes, the LGBT community is worse than the JW. The JW may shun you, but once you deal with that, they leave you alone to live your life. There is no getting away from the LGBT community. If you disagree with them, they will go after you with a passion."
JWs still come through my neighborhood every couple of months, ringing buzzers, trying to get inside apartment buildings, leaving their invitations and tracts to litter the area. There haven't been carloads of LGBTs going door-to-door around here trying to recruit like the JWs. I have both JW and gay family members, it's only the JWs that don't let me live my life. There is a large LGBT community in my city and it seems very easy to get away from it. But then, I'm not trying to start a battle by disagreeing with their civil rights. So in my experience JWs are much worse than the LGBT community.
And the irony is that JWs are ready to go to court to insure THEIR rights to tell everyone else that their religions are a scam, the governement is run by the devil, and rocks will soon fall from the sky to smash open the skulls of all non-JWs!
i am going to throw down the gaunlet.
those who know the truth but stay in anyways are complicit in actions of the jehovah witness organization.
while i am sympathetic to the very difficult choices that they have to make, their unwillingness to confront the jw enables the organization.. some of you may remember my story.
Personally, I appreciate those on this forum who are still in for whatever reason.
Those who are still elders and post here are in the best position to share with us WT's ugly financial strategies. How would we know anything about their current money-grab if it weren't for the insiders that willingly disclose it here? Those who drag themselves to the Discrap Crapvention are able to recount the mindnumbing dramas and other details that I'm glad I don't have to sit through.
Thanks to their contributions to this forum, I know what my family is being told by WT, by the COs, etc. It's the absolute best spy network that I pay nothing to benefit from.
And for the minority of posters on here who are still attending meetings, if they suddenly chose to DA and never set foot in a KH again, it wouldn't somehow end the brainwashing of my friends and family. Rather, it would be a gift to WT if all "closet apostates" left. It would be their dream come true if they could put out an even crazier elders' manual and there wouldn't be anyone to leak it to the web. People like me would lose a valuable source of inside information.
Consequently, to those of you that are still stuck inside and come here to describe all the craziness inside WT, I say, "Thank You!"
